Morning Oppo

"SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman" (dasborgen) 09/16/2015 at 08:38 • Filed to: None

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37

Dogs rule

pip bip - choose Corrour > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 09/16/2015 at 08:43

2

but people are less likely to bite you!

:)

Party-vi > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 09/16/2015 at 08:44

1

Dogs are dumb.

Exhibit A: My fucking husky

scoob > Party-vi 09/16/2015 at 08:47

1

I’ll take that husky off your hands and trade you my dumb cat.

Party-vi > scoob 09/16/2015 at 08:50

3

As much as I would like a dumb cat over a dumb dog, cats are inherently evil.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > pip bip - choose Corrour 09/16/2015 at 08:51

0

I was always afraid of dogs...

Then a friend got a Husky, very friendly. Gaurds down 40%.

Played a collie a couple times some kids at school had. Guards down 40% again.

Ok, dogs aren’t so bad...

Then we have an unprovoked attack. Fuck, I'm back to square one. If I hadn't been on roller skates I'd have been leaving some bits behind. Fuck dogs.

Party-vi > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 09/16/2015 at 08:58

1

Some dogs are cunts. Some are not.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Party-vi 09/16/2015 at 09:01

0

True enough. However I'm soured now

Brickman > Party-vi 09/16/2015 at 09:05

2

Huskys aren’t very smart to begin with. :)

smobgirl > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 09/16/2015 at 09:06

2

I’ve never had a person poop on my living room floor. Which the dog apparently did last night within seconds of coming in from her last potty break.

Eberle-Hills-Cop > Brickman 09/16/2015 at 09:12

2

Huskies are actually super intelligent. I’m pretty sure one of my 2 is a criminal mastermind.

facw > smobgirl 09/16/2015 at 09:14

4

You’re clearly hosting the wrong sorts of parties

cazzyodo > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 09/16/2015 at 09:42

0

My girlfriend sent me this last week. I sent it back. We both apologized to each other but had a mutual understanding haha.

Ash78, voting early and often > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 09/16/2015 at 09:56

4

I just want to know how in 3 or 4 thousand years of selective breeding, we managed to turn a wolf into a Teacup Chihuahua. That’s some fucking magic.

Xyl0c41n3 > Party-vi 09/16/2015 at 10:02

1

C’mon man.

StationeryBikes > pip bip - choose Corrour 09/16/2015 at 10:04

0

“...oh really?”

Xyl0c41n3 > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 09/16/2015 at 10:08

2

What about derpy cats?

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Xyl0c41n3 09/16/2015 at 10:10

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I’m mostly indifferent towards cats....until I hang out with them and I can’t stop petting them. I’m just a big softie towards animals.

GIVE ME PUPPIES OR GIVE ME DEATH

Tekamul > Party-vi 09/16/2015 at 10:16

0

If only they carried signs

Xyl0c41n3 > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 09/16/2015 at 10:20

2

This is Enzo and he’s a ham.

Party-vi > Tekamul 09/16/2015 at 10:25

1

Mouth-foaming and snarling are good signs.

Party-vi > Xyl0c41n3 09/16/2015 at 10:26

1

The English and Australian usage of the word (which is what I’ve always used except in one instance on Oppo) defines a cunt as an unpleasant or stupid person, or a contemptible person or, in this case, dogs that attack without provocation. Obviously my intent was to get a reaction from using the word, but not to use in in the connotation that you apparently assume it is being used in. I understand why you take issue with me using “cunt”, but I do not agree with your “you-can-do-better-than-that” response to my use of the word.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Xyl0c41n3 09/16/2015 at 10:29

1

Kitteh!

Tekamul > Party-vi 09/16/2015 at 10:33

0

Yeah, those aren’t the ones to worry about.

When I was 8, my neighbors’ dog, who I saw almost everyday for 4 years, as I went to their house daily, decided to attack me when I was alone waking down the road.

Apparently they had decided to try to breed him, and it made him an unhappy camper.

No matter how friendly a dog, never trust them completely. It’s still a dog.

Xyl0c41n3 > Party-vi 09/16/2015 at 10:33

1

The majority of Oppos are American and will, necessarily, associate the word with the American connotation, which is a gendered slur against women.

I’m an American woman and that’s how I read it. Intention is not always (hardly ever, actually) a valid rationalization for a misstep.

Something about the paving materials used on the road to hell, and all that.

Party-vi > Xyl0c41n3 09/16/2015 at 10:47

2

Yes, because I clearly meant that some dogs are “a woman’s genitals”. My use of the word was not a misstep, but your assumption that I was using it as a gendered slur against women in a conversation about dogs is definitely a misstep. Apparently you are offended. It is not my responsibility to make sure my comments on Oppositelock do not offend you. I appreciate you taking the time to let me know you are offended, and it is duly noted.

Xyl0c41n3 > Party-vi 09/16/2015 at 10:53

2

I’m not offended. My point was that sometimes words and actions can be problematic regardless of the original intention behind them. There has been an effort to make Oppo a more welcoming place for women. Part of that effort has been to combat instances of sexism. Guess what? Sexism isn’t always overt or even intentional.

“It is not my responsibility to make sure my comments on Oppositelock do not offend you.”

It is , however, your responsibility as one of the administrators of this forum to hear a concern and not simply dismiss it outright.

Perhaps instead of being defensive, you could more constructively engage with me in this conversation.

Brickman > Eberle-Hills-Cop 09/16/2015 at 11:25

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In that way yes. My sisters huskys are always getting in trouble. Stealing food, digging in garbage, finding a way out the yard, etc. They are hard headed fur balls :P

Eberle-Hills-Cop > Brickman 09/16/2015 at 11:33

1

I have 2 that hunt like raptors. the smarter one funnels squirrels toward the other then it’s lunch time and ol’ me has to bury another little fella.

Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready > pip bip - choose Corrour 09/16/2015 at 11:34

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No, they’re not.

Party-vi > Xyl0c41n3 09/16/2015 at 11:43

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Me using a term in the correct connotation is not sexism. Now, it would have been sexist if I said “some dogs are like women - cunts!”, but I didn’t do that and wouldn’t do that (except for in my former example). Not that you are saying my comment was sexist, but I understand where you’re concern is coming from.

Also, I do not comment as a moderator when I’m in threads and posting things to the front page. My interaction with you thus far has not been as a moderator either, but as a commenter. You did not raise your concern to the mods by flagging the comment or sending an email (to my knowledge, I haven’t checked our Gmail account today). If you did, as soon as I was notified I would recuse myself from the moderation discussion and allowed the other mods to investigate and come to a conclusion, and would allow them to implement the solution, either dismissing my comment or giving me a warning, etc.

As a commenter, I’m not sure how much more I can offer to the conversation. I understand the definition of the term and its different connotations in use during normal conversation. I understand why you have an issue with anyone using the term because of what it means to you and how it makes you feel, how the term would disparage you if someone ever directed it towards you or used it to refer to women in your presence. I do use the term for it’s intended purpose though in all connotations. It is an especially vulgar term, and it is one of the most offensive terms in American dialect. It’s use to dehumanize women and reduce them to their reproductive organs we use to determine if someone is male or female. You and I both understand the word. I cannot defend my use of the word, because I know it is a disparaging term, and also because there is no reason for me to defend my use of it.

As a mod, if the term is used in a sexist connotation, we would point out it’s use and tell the OP that heavily implied or explicit sexism is not tolerated and is treated in the same regard as racism on this site in an effort to keep this a welcoming and open space. In that regard, I would probably ask to have the word changed if the comment was still editable, or would give a warning/strong suggestion not to use the term again.

valis86 > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 09/16/2015 at 11:51

0

new printout on my whiteboard. Thanks.

valis86 > Party-vi 09/16/2015 at 11:53

1

That is generally a good rule of thumb for most animals. How nature says ‘do not touch’.

Xyl0c41n3 > Party-vi 09/16/2015 at 20:12

2

First of all, sorry for not responding sooner. Wednesdays are always craptastically busy days for me at work.
Second, thank you for taking a step back and offering a thoughtful response. I very sincerely appreciate it.

“Me using a term in the correct connotation is not sexism.”

I don’t think we’ll be able to reach a consensus on that point, so I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

“Also, I do not comment as a moderator when I’m in threads and posting things to the front page. My interaction with you thus far has not been as a moderator either, but as a commenter.”

This issue is a little more persnickety for me. I understand that you (and the other mods) assume two separate roles: one, as a private individual, and another as a forum administrator, but I don’t think you can entirely divest yourself of the more public one when it would be convenient to.

I know that problem all too well myself. In real life, I’m somewhat of a public person responsible for maintaining an image and reputation that is not my own, but my company’s. I know that when people see me they see me as “Xyl0 from X,” even in my off hours. That knowledge very much informs how I comport myself in public, even when I’m on my own time. It sucks sometimes, but my professional identity is inextricably tied to my private one, and them’s the breaks.

I think this is a similar situation. I didn’t flag the comment or email the mod email account because, one, it was a minor thing, and two, I was engaging with a person I know as a mod. It’s a conversation I’ve had before with Gamecat. I don’t think there are any satisfactory answers, either. You mods deserve the freedom to act as private individuals, but at the same time, it’s a bit naive to think that that’s truly possible. In the future, however, I will try to remember that if we share another conversation, you are speaking only as yourself, unless you tell me otherwise.

“If you did, as soon as I was notified I would recuse myself from the moderation discussion...”

I can’t tell you how much more my estimation of you has grown because of that statement alone. And that’s because, as I’ve told you before, I already had a healthy respect for you.

Your entire third paragraph is simultaneously incredibly frustrating and... not. I guess the most I can diplomatically say is please try not to lecture someone about the history of a thing they’re intimately familiar with. I know you didn’t mean anything by it, but it’s a little grating.

“As a mod, if the term is used in a sexist connotation, we would point out it’s use and tell the OP that heavily implied or explicit sexism is not tolerated...”

And here we arrive at the crux of the problem. The mod team is composed primarily of men. While you won’t find me making assertions that sexism doesn’t affect men, too, by definition, it does affect women more directly, more often and in more complex and subtle ways. That the only recourse female Oppos have when an issue arises is to have a male mod decide what is, in fact sexist, is frustrating at best and infuriating at worst.

I may be wrong in saying the use of the word “cunt” in the above scenario is sexist (though I am not actually conceding that point), but that doesn’t change the fact that this is not the first time a female Oppo has raised a concern only to have it dismissed, minimized or rationalized away.

As I’ve asked Hammerhead on numerous occasions, could you (general you, not just you you) perhaps take into consideration that maybe there are some nuances of sexism you just can’t understand as a man? That there are some aspects of it you may not always pick up on, even when someone tries to point it out? Not because you’re not intelligent or empathetic, but because you’re not a woman. (Just like there are some things I’ll never understand with finesse about being a man because, well, I’m not a man).

Anyway, thank you for your time, Party-vi.

pip bip - choose Corrour > StationeryBikes 09/17/2015 at 05:35

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yes , really!

Party-vi > Xyl0c41n3 09/17/2015 at 09:42

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Wednesdays might be bad for you, but the whole month of September is turrible for me! Thank you for responding btw. I feel like both of us are secretly trying to one-up the other for length of response posts here.

Nope, we won’t reach a consensus. But that’s OK.

I understand it’s very difficult to separate my commenting as Party-vi and my commenting as a Mod, and trust me I’m aware that people knowing I’m a Mod (and seeing my name so much on here) has an affect (effect?) on how they respond to my posts or comments. You are correct - it’s not entirely possible to wear my Opponaut hat and then take it off to put on my Mod hat. My head covering is more like a mullet, except Party-vi in the front, Mod in the back. Same haircut, but two different roles. However, I do attempt to keep my Modding objective rather than subjective, unless we get into a situation with someone flagrantly disregarding our Handbook, at which point I swing ban hammers and say mean things.

I’m sure you enjoyed my mansplaining about how the word “cunt” should or should not make you feel haha (kidding of course). Although I am guilty of mansplaining IRL to the point where my fiancee just gives me a look, trust me it was not intended to grate, but to show you I have some teeny-tiny understanding of what you might be experiencing, although as a man I do not - and will not - have the whole picture.

“ That the only recourse female Oppos have when an issue arises is to have a male mod decide what is, in fact sexist, is frustrating at best and infuriating at worst.”

I hear you on this, but unfortunately I have no solution at this point in time. It has been suggested that we add more female moderators recently (by name even, and I would tend to agree), but thus far we have been reluctant to add any new mods. I am not sure why. I agree, because we don’t experience sexism every day in the same capacity as you or other commenters might, that we are not as fine-tuned when it comes to routing sexism from Oppositelock, but it’s not like the people on here posting sexist shit are really sneaky with it. Granted, there are instances where something may appear innocuous to our eyes but in actuality is not. More female mods would probably help this issue, but again, I do not know if or when we would add them.

Plain as day, there are some nuances of sexism that I can’t understand as a man.. Your last paragraph is spot on. I would like to thank you for bringing you frustrations to my attention, both as a mod and as a commenter.

Xyl0c41n3 > Party-vi 09/18/2015 at 14:46

1

Heh. You didn’t realize that I was getting paid by the word for my comments? It’s the latest kinja beta feature. Oh, who are we kidding? All of kinja is still in beta. :)

I know there’s been some discussion in adding some diversity to the mod ranks. I’m really excited by that prospect. There are some amazing Oppos who would be good candidates, so I hope they get the opportunity.

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to respond. I think this is one of the best interactions I’ve ever had on Oppo. And hey, it’s Friday! And September is halfway over! So, hopefully soon things won’t be so turrible for ya! :) Have a great weekend, Party-vi!

Party-vi > Xyl0c41n3 09/18/2015 at 14:50

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Thanks Xyl0!